# Why are banks still using Java? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Prog (Archived)\ **Tags:** java, industry\ **Created:** [December 22, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948 "2016-12-22T19:18:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kostonstyle](https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@kostonstyle](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/kostonstyle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/1 "2016-12-22T19:18:57Z")
Hi all Why Banks are using still a lot of JAVA? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Qqwy](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/qqwy/32/1349_2.png) [@Qqwy](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/Qqwy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/2 "2016-12-22T19:24:44Z")
I believe the main reasons are: 1. In large organizations, the people writing the code are not the same people that decide what language to use. 2. In large organizations, it takes a long time for change to take place across-the-board 3. Banks like taking risks (in new technologies) even less than most other large companies. 4. Large organizations already have a large amount of legacy code written in a certain language, which needs to be maintained, and all new software should be compatible with the already-existing software. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![andre1sk](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/andre1sk/32/1380_2.png) [@andre1sk](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/andre1sk)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/3 "2016-12-22T19:28:06Z")
Banks still use a lot of COBOL šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![DianaOlympos](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/dianaolympos/32/4353_2.png) [@DianaOlympos](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/DianaOlympos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/4 "2016-12-22T19:38:37Z")
Most developpers in ā€œEntrepriseā€ stuff like banks only knows Java. And education, changing technology, etc ā€¦ is not at all something that happens in that type of environment. Also Java is seen as ā€œsimple, easy and lightā€ for them compared to most of their experience. in 15 years, maybe they will have changed tech. But you have to keep in mind that a ā€œnormal smallā€ project in that type of company tend to span between 3 to 15 years before seeing the light. Source : i work in one of these company. ---
**Author:** ![Ajaxdone](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/ajaxdone/32/961_2.png) [@Ajaxdone](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/Ajaxdone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/5 "2016-12-22T19:41:24Z")
Banks are not normal company. Their product is Trust. So every tech they use must go through a lot of Triage, Gate, consulting and finally they decide what will be in TAG. Once it in TAG, you need to justify any other language can beat Java. They consider like this way: - Is big company using the lang? if not , you are out - Is big company support the lang? Basically is do you charge money like Oracle, if not, you are out - How easy to replace the developer, see 50 developers? if not in one or two days, you are out. Bank layoff people by team or by director. Consider there are 20% developers in this world is Java developer. - Is the lang safe? this is why c and c++ is out. And Bank only use JDK1.6 ---
**Author:** ![mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mkunikow/32/235_2.png) [@mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/mkunikow)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/6 "2016-12-22T22:43:51Z")
I think banks are using very different system languages, not only java for example dot net platform like C#,F#. I heard that Visa will be using blockchain [https://chain.com/technology/](https://chain.com/technology/) ([Open Sourcing Chain's Developer Platform with Tess Rinearson (Go Time #23)](https://changelog.com/gotime/23)) . Why java? JVM is very stable, tuned machine. JVM = Big Data, Micoservices, Distributed Systems Java is static typed language ā†’ this means it is well suited for big projects, many developers co working. But not only banks use Java. Netflix backend is heavy java user. Google backend is heavy java user. (Wonā€™t argue if Java language is good, nice or bed. It definitely has own flaws :)) ---
**Author:** ![cpgo](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/cpgo/32/25792_2.png) [@cpgo](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/cpgo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/7 "2016-12-23T00:16:49Z")
On the java topic: Lots of Brazilian gov systems still uses those java on the browser thing (applets? donā€™t know the name) for digital certificate authentication among other things. Chrome no longer supports NPAPI, Firefox is almost dropping support as well. What is the alternative to use digital certificates authentication without java on the browser? Is it even possible? ---
**Author:** ![mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mkunikow/32/235_2.png) [@mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/mkunikow)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/8 "2016-12-23T01:35:04Z")
You can use browser https with digital signed certificate. It does not require any java. PS I was thinking that java applets are already dead as flash šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![dwahyudi](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/dwahyudi/32/347_2.png) [@dwahyudi](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/dwahyudi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/9 "2016-12-23T06:42:36Z")
Iā€™ve ever worked in a big old national bank. I can tell you, their code had awful lots of big ball of mud. And it has been like that for more than a decade. Only few dare to touch it. Because of job security, most people who worked on the code were long-time employees, only them who could understand the code. The code itself rarely changed / refactored. But recently, there is a huge, well-funded bank in my country that wants to try different approach. Theyā€™re using new technologies, hiring new young guys, and adopting startup-like style of development with rapid cycle of release. ---
**Author:** ![sotojuan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/sotojuan/32/17260_2.png) [@sotojuan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/sotojuan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/10 "2016-12-24T01:25:41Z")
Average Java programmers are easy to hire, organize, and replace. ---
**Author:** ![OvermindDL1](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/32/2677_2.png) [@OvermindDL1](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/OvermindDL1)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/11 "2016-12-24T04:07:56Z")
> [@andre1sk](#): > > Banks still use a lot of COBOL šŸ™‚ Locally here it is _all_ COBOL. \>.\> In my opinion, using something which is not extremely enforcing in the type system that every cent is accounted for, rounding and all, and it is impossible to break out of in normal coding, then it should absolutely _not_ be used. Thus Java should absolutely _not_ be used. Iā€™d probably use [Idris](http://www.idris-lang.org/) or so. You could mostly force it well with OCaml or Haskell or so, but Idris is designed for just these kind of problems. ---
**Author:** ![hassan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/hassan/32/287_2.png) [@hassan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/hassan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/12 "2016-12-24T05:29:59Z")
> Thus Java should absolutely not be used. Iā€™d probably use Idris or so. > ā€¦ but Idris is designed for just these kind of problems. Does Idris have a native Decimal type? I havenā€™t been able to find anything about itā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![muhifauzan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/muhifauzan/32/15550_2.png) [@muhifauzan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/muhifauzan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 9:11am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/13 "2016-12-24T09:11:27Z")
Iā€™m kind of interested to know what bank is that? ---
**Author:** ![bobbypriambodo](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/bobbypriambodo/32/2843_2.png) [@bobbypriambodo](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/bobbypriambodo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/14 "2016-12-24T09:22:16Z")
> [@dwahyudi](#): > > But recently, there is a huge, well-funded bank in my country that wants to try different approach. Theyā€™re using new technologies, hiring new young guys, and adopting startup-like style of development with rapid cycle of release. > [@muhifauzan](#): > > Iā€™m kind of interested to know what bank is that? Pardon me if Iā€™m wrong, but assuming that both of you are from Indonesia (from your names), I think @dwahyudi was talking about [BTPNā€™s Jenius](https://www.jenius.com/en)? ---
**Author:** ![muhifauzan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/muhifauzan/32/15550_2.png) [@muhifauzan](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/muhifauzan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 9:45am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/15 "2016-12-24T09:45:32Z")
Nice guess! I see, Jenius looks cool. It can be a game changer, here ---
**Author:** ![mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/mkunikow/32/235_2.png) [@mkunikow](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/mkunikow)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/16 "2016-12-25T00:29:27Z")
what about this [https://www.fstar-lang.org/](https://www.fstar-lang.org/) ? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![OvermindDL1](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/overminddl1/32/2677_2.png) [@OvermindDL1](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/OvermindDL1)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/17 "2017-01-03T15:45:28Z")
> [@mkunikow](#): > > what about this [https://www.fstar-lang.org/](https://www.fstar-lang.org/) ? šŸ™‚ Iā€™ve not looked at it yet but I do keep meaning too, it is on my to-read list. šŸ™‚ > [@hassan](#): > > Does Idris have a native Decimal type? I havenā€™t been able to find > anything about itā€¦ Not that Iā€™d seen built-in but it would be fairly trivial to build a safe one in it that forces you to have to handle partial cents as well. ---
**Author:** ![pjbs](https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@pjbs](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/pjbs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/18 "2017-01-04T17:54:15Z")
They measure time in decades, and must maintain their soft and access to DATA a lifetime: unlimited retention periods. ---
**Author:** ![kb1flr](https://forum.elixirforum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kb1flr](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/kb1flr)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/20 "2018-02-28T16:31:07Z")
To be honest, for a lot of what banks do COBOL is a good choice. I started out programming COBOL for U.S Steel back in the 80ā€™s using Hollerith cards. I much prefer todayā€™s tech (especially Elixir), but COBOL has itā€™s place. ---
**Author:** ![lessless](https://forum.elixirforum.com/user_avatar/forum.elixirforum.com/lessless/32/6719_2.png) [@lessless](https://forum.elixirforum.com/u/lessless)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948/21 "2018-02-28T17:24:42Z")
Heh, Meet the spawnproc [Spawn Processing](https://web.archive.org/web/20170317035309/http://spawnproc.com:80/)[https://github.com/spawnproc](https://github.com/spawnproc) Supposed to be deployed into the biggest Ukrainian bunk until politics happened. Developed by the Synrc team, a guys behind N2O Erlang framework [http://n2o.space/](http://n2o.space/) which used to power at least 3 cryptocurrency exchanges around the world. [Next page](https://forum.elixirforum.com/t/why-are-banks-still-using-java/2948.md?page=2)